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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,212)
by Zachariah from Croatia
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No worries, got it. We are here for it all. 
(Wednesday 30 July 2025; 00:38)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,204)
by Terna from Nigeria
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Exactly, and it makes sense, who stays the same even in just one year? That's why I responded to you. The intent behind one's messages here is always discernible whether good or bad even if disguised as "love" or "concern". 
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 19:57)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,211)
by Dove from United States
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I just want to let you know that I appreciate your POV and I can see where you're coming from. If you feel this way about it I'm sure other people may too. So I'm glad you shared it. Your post was thought-provoking in a way that made me reflect more deeply.
(Wednesday 30 July 2025; 00:34)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,159)
by Terna from Nigeria
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You get it, and I'm glad you addressed it from this angle, I just didn't want to get into it. Part of the main problem "OG's" have is Mariah's leaning towards black music and succeeding at it too - R&B/Hiphop specifically. That's why they will always have a problem with this "New Mariah", so to speak, because that Tommy version was molded to cater to a white audience. Let's call it as it is. However, that's not the real her, never really was to begin with - check "Vision of Love", that's a singer who's main and only influence is black music, gospel, R&B and hip-hop (check the debut album, isn't she rapping on "Prisoner"). What's mind boggling about these OG fans is that new Mariah (true Mariah) has now been out so to speak, much longer (all caps) than hairbangs Mariah (Music Box and Daydream) and she has pretty much remained the same since, yet they're still hooked on the curated Tommy's vision of her and think that somehow, someday she's gonna go back to pop and that image. Smh.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 05:12)
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Sugar Sweet (110,210)
by Giovanni from USA
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I agree Jamie. I also wish we had more of Mariah singing the song. A solo version would have been much better.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 23:44)
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Sugar Sweet (110,209)
by Jamie from UK
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I've been listening to it today, I really wish she had also sung the 2nd verse, it's a catchy song but I don't think there's enough Mariah on it. When I heard the clips before its release I was excited but I actually think I prefer TD especially the soul of the people remix.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 23:29)
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Sugar Sweet (110,209)
by Jamie from UK
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I've been listening to it today, I really wish she had also sung the 2nd verse, it's a catchy song but I don't think there's enough Mariah on it. When I heard the clips before its release I was excited but I actually think I prefer TD especially the soul of the people remix.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 23:29)
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Sugar Sweet (110,206)
by Bobby A from United States
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I can't believe Sugar Sweet is currently #83 on iTunes. This is not good. I don't think radio adds and the video next week will help Sugar Sweet debut on the Hot 100. I sure hope there are other songs that will carry the album after it drops on September 26th. I hope there are some features and samples that will be revealed to us soon. It is Mariah Carey vs. Morgan Wallen, Alex Warren, Teddy Swims, Chappell Roan, Sabrina Carpenter and Justin Beiber right now on the iTunes chart right now and probably will be that way in late September.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 20:48)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,208)
by Lambi from USA
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Please don't race bait. Jamie made a point about Mariah's career during and after her time with Tommy. He referenced "Without You" (from the Tommy era) and "With You I'm Born Again" (post-Tommy), saying Mariah carried herself with grace in both. He clearly said he can appreciate both eras. Nothing about race.
He also shared that his nana was more pleased with him being a Mariah fan than a Madonna fan (another white woman) so taking it from a race angle is a bit reaching. If he was truly insinuating racism, he would've made a comparison with a black artist, which he didn't, so let's not twist this into something it's not.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 23:06)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,159)
by Terna from Nigeria
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You get it, and I'm glad you addressed it from this angle, I just didn't want to get into it. Part of the main problem "OG's" have is Mariah's leaning towards black music and succeeding at it too - R&B/Hiphop specifically. That's why they will always have a problem with this "New Mariah", so to speak, because that Tommy version was molded to cater to a white audience. Let's call it as it is. However, that's not the real her, never really was to begin with - check "Vision of Love", that's a singer who's main and only influence is black music, gospel, R&B and hip-hop (check the debut album, isn't she rapping on "Prisoner"). What's mind boggling about these OG fans is that new Mariah (true Mariah) has now been out so to speak, much longer (all caps) than hairbangs Mariah (Music Box and Daydream) and she has pretty much remained the same since, yet they're still hooked on the curated Tommy's vision of her and think that somehow, someday she's gonna go back to pop and that image. Smh.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 05:12)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,207)
by Bobby A from United States
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No, I am. I am the OG that keeps the board together. Lol. I am enjoying the conversation this week. We can agree to disagree. Hopefully, we all will be celebrating when MC drops the tracklisting and producer credits. I feel we are in for some surprises to help carry the album for some strong streaming and physical sales. I am hoping Tricky Stewart produced the Paul and Linda McCartney track. Tricky Stewart had some great praises to say about working with MC.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 21:47)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,193)
by Zachariah from Croatia
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And I just responded to a message where she was being slammed for not staying the same.
I just realized; am I the OG that everyone is being mad at? 
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 15:39)
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Sugar Sweet (110,206)
by Bobby A from United States
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I can't believe Sugar Sweet is currently #83 on iTunes. This is not good. I don't think radio adds and the video next week will help Sugar Sweet debut on the Hot 100. I sure hope there are other songs that will carry the album after it drops on September 26th. I hope there are some features and samples that will be revealed to us soon. It is Mariah Carey vs. Morgan Wallen, Alex Warren, Teddy Swims, Chappell Roan, Sabrina Carpenter and Justin Beiber right now on the iTunes chart right now and probably will be that way in late September.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 20:48)
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Sugar Sweet (110,154)
by Edward from USA
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I hope radio and people in general give "Sugar Sweet" a real chance, it is such a bop. She actually crafted a catchy hook that sticks in your head. I love the flavor Shenseea brings to the song, she reminds a little of Nicki Minaj. "SS" is definitely an earworm. I don't remember the last time Mariah released a song that got me humming the chorus spontaneously. It's definitely an earworm. If it doesn't become a hit, I don't know what will.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 03:43)
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TD remix (110,205)
by Jamie from UK
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I'm loving Type Dangerous (The touch the soul of the people remix) it's got a great vibe too it, think I prefer it to the original. It's on my summer playlist along with Its Like That (esentrix remix).
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 20:11)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,204)
by Terna from Nigeria
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Exactly, and it makes sense, who stays the same even in just one year? That's why I responded to you. The intent behind one's messages here is always discernible whether good or bad even if disguised as "love" or "concern".
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 19:57)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,193)
by Zachariah from Croatia
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And I just responded to a message where she was being slammed for not staying the same.
I just realized; am I the OG that everyone is being mad at?
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 15:39)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,203)
by Terna from Nigeria
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Yes, Whitney Houston faced the same backlash and she's fully black. But neither one of those big stars you mentioned are biracial, Now for someone mixed such as Carey, she's biracial and always going to be somewhere in the middle (you've listened to "Outside" a thousand times, those lyrics are very real to her and her struggle) it was very important to cater to two sides and this is when she started having creative differences with the label and executives in charge. Yes music is supposed to be universal but there also is a reason why there are sub Billboard chart categories specific to genre - pop, R&B/HipHop, country, electronic etc. With the Hot 100 being open to every genre. Comments like "She's a white girl trying to sing black" did damage and did not help. On Butterfly there's a balance between both worlds so to speak, I recall in the interviews on number ones the video presentation, she made a statement that went something like "I still gave those people that wanted to hear the ballads, the ballads, but it's also really important that I incorporate more of my true influences into my music." Enough said.
Yes, Whitney Houston faced the same backlash and she's fully black. But neither one of those big stars you mentioned are biracial, Now for someone mixed such as Carey, she's biracial and always going to be somewhere in the middle (you've listened to "Outside" a thousand times, those lyrics are very real to her and her struggle) it was very important to cater to two sides and this is when she started having creative differences with the label and executives in charge. Yes music is supposed to be universal but there also is a reason why there are sub Billboard chart categories specific to genre - pop, R&B/HipHop, country, electronic etc. With the Hot 100 being open to every genre. Comments like "She's a white girl trying to sing black" did damage and did not help. On Butterfly there's a balance between both worlds so to speak, I recall in the interviews on number ones the video presentation, she made a statement that went something like "I still gave those people that wanted to hear the ballads, the ballads, but it's also really important that I incorporate more of my true influences into my music." Enough said.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 19:49)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,189)
by Bobby A from United States
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It wasn't just Tommy making his star singer sing more pop songs. Clive did it to Whitney as well. Whitney actually said to Clive that she wanted her 3rd album to be an R&B album. She heard the rumblings from the African-American community that she was catering too much to the pop audience and that bothered Whitney a lot. So, that is the reason why I'm Your Baby Tonight was a R&B album and subsequent albums after too. In both Clive's and Tommy's mind back then, if Whitney and Mariah sang pop songs both would reach a broader audience and maximize their album and single sales. It doesn't happen like that in today's music industry because great singers like Whitney and Mariah are non-existent today. You can sing anything, sing badly and still get a recording contract today.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 14:12)
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Article: Mariah keeps it nice, neat, "sugar sweet" on new single (110,202)
by Libra Lamb from USA
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Personally, and in my little humble opinion, it's the best she's put out in years as far as "reachability" to the target audience. I do find it stuck in my head and I can't shake it off, pun intended. Seriously though, I've heard the Mariah solo version too and I love the collaborations better. Just in case that was a deciding factor.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 19:41)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,201)
by Bill from the UK
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It is hilarious isn't it. I don't think it's on YouTube anymore, but there was a short clip of her saying the "I would never lip sync" line that then cut to her performance of Boy (I Need You) on Top of the Pops, where she completely forgot there was a high note at the end and tried to mask it terribly. Brilliant edit lol.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 18:33)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,183)
by Lambi from USA
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"I would never lip sync" sends me right back to Howard Stern's correct assessment of Mariah Carey lip syncing at the '98 Blockbuster Awards. She was so insulted, she gaslit him and sang a line on the spot: "Baby, can you feel me, imagining I'm looking in your eyes, can you see that? Yeah, don't accuse me of not singing again. Ever."
This will forever send me because the clip consistently goes viral and everyone thinks Mariah delivered a smackdown response when in reality, she was gaslighting him the whole time. She was, in fact, lip syncing. LMAO.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 12:46)
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Bazaar UK cover (110,200)
by MusicfanJ from Germany
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That look is what I wanted to see too. It screams superstar power.  It's sexy but with class and elegance. That pic is just wow. Please more of it. So beautiful.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 18:21)
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Bazaar UK cover (110,160)
by Lighty from China
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So refreshing to see Mariah in a suit for a magazine cover shoot. The interview itself is not that informative though.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 05:48)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,199)
by Edward from USA
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Have you heard the classic tale of the boy who cried wolf? Sadly, that's exactly what's happening with the constant overuse of serious terms like "racism", "homophobia", "transphobia", and "misogyny". These words have been thrown around so casually and so often that they've lost much of their weight. Now, when real cases of discrimination occur, people are more likely to dismiss them. The public has grown tired and desensitized to it all.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 18:02)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,194)
by Lighty from China
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I totally agree. As an Asian I always wonder why some people have to make everything about race, when sometimes it clearly is not the case.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 15:54)
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Article: Mariah Carey is looking for a comeback (110,198)
by Lee from USA
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Comeback? The woman tops the Hot 100 seven years in a row. She still gets multimillion dollar endorsement deals in her late 50s.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 17:56)
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TD on radio (110,197)
by Dove from United States
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My coworker just texted me a picture of the little screen on her car to show me that Type: Dangerous came on the radio. I'm so happy it's getting airtime.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 17:36)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,196)
by Stacey from USA
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Agree BFF. Music transcends race. Should we tell Darius Rucker he can't sing country because he is black? Or Eminem can't rap because he's white? Of course not. After all the nonsense last night, right before I went to sleep, I played Sugar Sweet. Like Edward, I really hope this song does well. It's got one of her better catchy hooks in a long time.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 16:57)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,191)
by BFF from United States
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Do black artists not sing pop music? Are black and white the only types of people in the world? Last time I checked Mariah has devoted fans across many continents and of many different backgrounds other than "white" and "black". I'm not an OG fan. I became a fan in the 1997-2000 period and my first Mariah album was "Rainbow", so I thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated the way Mariah integrated hip-hop into her music. I think it worked best on songs like "The Roof" and "Crybaby" and the remixes for "My All" and "Thank God I Found You". And I also love the stuff from 1990-1996 - the ballads ("Can't Let Go"), the gospel-inflected tunes ("Any Time You Need a Friend"), the house and disco influenced uptempo songs ("Emotions", "Now that I Know", etc).
Last time I checked, Diana Ross, Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson, Luther Vandross, Donna Summer, and many, many other African-American/black artists have put out music that most people would categorize as "pop". Pop isn't a genre - it is shorthand for "popular" and encompasses a wide range of styles and idioms. And "pop" music isn't synonymous with "white". Country songs go to #1 on the "pop" charts. R&B and Hip-Hop songs have gone to #1 on the "pop" charts. House tracks have gone to #1 on the "pop" charts. Alternative rock songs go to #1 on the "pop" charts.
In 2003, Liz Phair caught a lot of flack for "going pop" on her self-titled album, but she brilliantly pointed out that it's dishonest for recording artists (and critics) to pretend that they aren't in business when they are. Having a career as a recording artist means that you're often (out of necessity) trying to appeal to the widest possible audience - it has nothing to do with "race" and everything to do with capitalism. Sometimes you need a "pop" hit to pay your bills, get out of debt, to build your clout, etc. There's no shame in it.
I actually think the main reason that Mariah began to feel the need to pander a bit was due to music critic Nelson George labelling her "a white girl trying to sing black", which is itself a racist statement because it conflates skin color with singing ability. This was a misnomer because she was already singing gospel, R&B, and house-influenced songs on the debut album in 1990 and the "Emotions" album in 1991. Last time I checked Adele is a more impressive vocalist than Janet Jackson, but this reductive thinking would have us believe that somehow "race" automatically correlates with singing ability. It doesn't.
Mariah being called a "white girl trying to sing black" by music critics became such an issue that she had a press conference/sit down with many of them early on to tell them to cut it out. The reality is that Mariah never denied being mixed race, and I don't agree with the argument that Tommy tried to hide that aspect of her. Critics like Nelson George were ones who created this issue because their color struck, racialist thinking disallowed the idea that someone who looked like Mariah could sing and write so brilliantly.
Sorry for getting on my soapbox, but it makes me angry that Mariah has felt pressured into pandering to this nonsense. Maybe we should stop trying to label music with such simplistic "racial" categories and just enjoy the music?
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 15:21)
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Random thoughts (110,195)
by Bobby A from United States
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The music industry is a beast anyway. We all can agree on that. We no longer have labels like Motown Records developing artists. What we have today are a bunch of artists who sign a contract and the record label connects them with a popular producer to make them into a pop or R&B hit machine. Sometimes it works on both sides and sometimes it doesn't work. One example, when an artist from 2023-2025 became a hit machine because of a popular and successful producer is Tate McCrae. Tate McCrae had moderate success with her debut studio album, but her whole trajectory changed when Ryan Tedder co-produced and co-wrote multiple songs on her 2023 and 2024 releases. Also, he was her co-executive producer on both albums. Ryan Tedder promotes the heck out of Tate McCrae on his X and Instagram pages. Whenever Tate had a successful milestone for her singles and albums, he posted about it. She is successful today because of one hit producer promotes her every chance he gets to celebrate her successes on the pop charts.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 16:42)
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Random thoughts (110,192)
by Dove from United States
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I just feel like the well is polluted in a lot of today's music in general. I say I don't like overly sexualized celebrities but I enjoy watching Tate McRae and Britney Spears performances and they're "sexy". So am I being a hypocrite? I think the reason they don't come across as vulgar to me is because they're dancers and their bodies are more athletic. It doesn't come across as "porno". (Not that I would know that, but I can imagine.) The body and dance routine is part of the art.
Maybe there are really good dancers/entertainers in the urban market but I wouldn't know that because every time I take a peek over there I'm appalled. Like that WAP song I mentioned in one of my previous posts. It's not just "urban" music either - it's my people too. Sometimes I look to see what's new and I see people like Karol G with their big fake booties gyrating on the stage. I don't enjoy Madonna and her antics either. So I don't think it's about race.
When I was younger I really enjoyed Brandy, Monica, SWV, TLC. Maybe they were pushed to do mainstream music, and that's why I liked it, but honestly sometimes I can't really tell the difference. If it sounds good to me it sounds good to me. In grade school I really liked Boyz II Men and MC Hammer.
All of Mariah's music sounds good to me. I have really been enjoying Caution, MOAIA, and MIAMTEC lately and those are supposed to be really urban.
I'm sorry my posts are so long but I've been having a lot of thoughts lately and I feel like this is the appropriate place to leave my "permanent digital glitter trail".
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 15:27)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,194)
by Lighty from China
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I totally agree. As an Asian I always wonder why some people have to make everything about race, when sometimes it clearly is not the case.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 15:54)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,191)
by BFF from United States
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Do black artists not sing pop music? Are black and white the only types of people in the world? Last time I checked Mariah has devoted fans across many continents and of many different backgrounds other than "white" and "black". I'm not an OG fan. I became a fan in the 1997-2000 period and my first Mariah album was "Rainbow", so I thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated the way Mariah integrated hip-hop into her music. I think it worked best on songs like "The Roof" and "Crybaby" and the remixes for "My All" and "Thank God I Found You". And I also love the stuff from 1990-1996 - the ballads ("Can't Let Go"), the gospel-inflected tunes ("Any Time You Need a Friend"), the house and disco influenced uptempo songs ("Emotions", "Now that I Know", etc).
Last time I checked, Diana Ross, Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson, Luther Vandross, Donna Summer, and many, many other African-American/black artists have put out music that most people would categorize as "pop". Pop isn't a genre - it is shorthand for "popular" and encompasses a wide range of styles and idioms. And "pop" music isn't synonymous with "white". Country songs go to #1 on the "pop" charts. R&B and Hip-Hop songs have gone to #1 on the "pop" charts. House tracks have gone to #1 on the "pop" charts. Alternative rock songs go to #1 on the "pop" charts.
In 2003, Liz Phair caught a lot of flack for "going pop" on her self-titled album, but she brilliantly pointed out that it's dishonest for recording artists (and critics) to pretend that they aren't in business when they are. Having a career as a recording artist means that you're often (out of necessity) trying to appeal to the widest possible audience - it has nothing to do with "race" and everything to do with capitalism. Sometimes you need a "pop" hit to pay your bills, get out of debt, to build your clout, etc. There's no shame in it.
I actually think the main reason that Mariah began to feel the need to pander a bit was due to music critic Nelson George labelling her "a white girl trying to sing black", which is itself a racist statement because it conflates skin color with singing ability. This was a misnomer because she was already singing gospel, R&B, and house-influenced songs on the debut album in 1990 and the "Emotions" album in 1991. Last time I checked Adele is a more impressive vocalist than Janet Jackson, but this reductive thinking would have us believe that somehow "race" automatically correlates with singing ability. It doesn't.
Mariah being called a "white girl trying to sing black" by music critics became such an issue that she had a press conference/sit down with many of them early on to tell them to cut it out. The reality is that Mariah never denied being mixed race, and I don't agree with the argument that Tommy tried to hide that aspect of her. Critics like Nelson George were ones who created this issue because their color struck, racialist thinking disallowed the idea that someone who looked like Mariah could sing and write so brilliantly.
Sorry for getting on my soapbox, but it makes me angry that Mariah has felt pressured into pandering to this nonsense. Maybe we should stop trying to label music with such simplistic "racial" categories and just enjoy the music?
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 15:21)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,193)
by Zachariah from Croatia
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And I just responded to a message where she was being slammed for not staying the same.
I just realized; am I the OG that everyone is being mad at?
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 15:39)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,178)
by Terna from Nigeria
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Getting uncomfortable I see. Lol. I wasn't the one who insinuated or brought it up, I just responded to his message and acknowledged he got that part, he's black too as he stated and gets it. "Butterfly" never did the numbers "Music Box" and "Daydream" did for that one fact. It is an R&B/HipHop album. Facts. But look at how highly rated that album is in contemporary music today. It is also her "Magnum Opus", she achieved her best work, being her authentic true self. I haven't "crowned" myself poison or anything negative here, as you put it, I'm not the one spitting vitriol out at Mariah here masked as "OG Love", from the OG Coven.  
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 11:47)
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Random thoughts (110,192)
by Dove from United States
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I just feel like the well is polluted in a lot of today's music in general. I say I don't like overly sexualized celebrities but I enjoy watching Tate McRae and Britney Spears performances and they're "sexy". So am I being a hypocrite? I think the reason they don't come across as vulgar to me is because they're dancers and their bodies are more athletic. It doesn't come across as "porno". (Not that I would know that, but I can imagine.) The body and dance routine is part of the art.
Maybe there are really good dancers/entertainers in the urban market but I wouldn't know that because every time I take a peek over there I'm appalled. Like that WAP song I mentioned in one of my previous posts. It's not just "urban" music either - it's my people too. Sometimes I look to see what's new and I see people like Karol G with their big fake booties gyrating on the stage. I don't enjoy Madonna and her antics either. So I don't think it's about race.
When I was younger I really enjoyed Brandy, Monica, SWV, TLC. Maybe they were pushed to do mainstream music, and that's why I liked it, but honestly sometimes I can't really tell the difference. If it sounds good to me it sounds good to me. In grade school I really liked Boyz II Men and MC Hammer.
All of Mariah's music sounds good to me. I have really been enjoying Caution, MOAIA, and MIAMTEC lately and those are supposed to be really urban.
I'm sorry my posts are so long but I've been having a lot of thoughts lately and I feel like this is the appropriate place to leave my "permanent digital glitter trail".
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 15:27)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,191)
by BFF from United States
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Do black artists not sing pop music? Are black and white the only types of people in the world? Last time I checked Mariah has devoted fans across many continents and of many different backgrounds other than "white" and "black". I'm not an OG fan. I became a fan in the 1997-2000 period and my first Mariah album was "Rainbow", so I thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated the way Mariah integrated hip-hop into her music. I think it worked best on songs like "The Roof" and "Crybaby" and the remixes for "My All" and "Thank God I Found You". And I also love the stuff from 1990-1996 - the ballads ("Can't Let Go"), the gospel-inflected tunes ("Any Time You Need a Friend"), the house and disco influenced uptempo songs ("Emotions", "Now that I Know", etc).
Last time I checked, Diana Ross, Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson, Luther Vandross, Donna Summer, and many, many other African-American/black artists have put out music that most people would categorize as "pop". Pop isn't a genre - it is shorthand for "popular" and encompasses a wide range of styles and idioms. And "pop" music isn't synonymous with "white". Country songs go to #1 on the "pop" charts. R&B and Hip-Hop songs have gone to #1 on the "pop" charts. House tracks have gone to #1 on the "pop" charts. Alternative rock songs go to #1 on the "pop" charts.
In 2003, Liz Phair caught a lot of flack for "going pop" on her self-titled album, but she brilliantly pointed out that it's dishonest for recording artists (and critics) to pretend that they aren't in business when they are. Having a career as a recording artist means that you're often (out of necessity) trying to appeal to the widest possible audience - it has nothing to do with "race" and everything to do with capitalism. Sometimes you need a "pop" hit to pay your bills, get out of debt, to build your clout, etc. There's no shame in it.
I actually think the main reason that Mariah began to feel the need to pander a bit was due to music critic Nelson George labelling her "a white girl trying to sing black", which is itself a racist statement because it conflates skin color with singing ability. This was a misnomer because she was already singing gospel, R&B, and house-influenced songs on the debut album in 1990 and the "Emotions" album in 1991. Last time I checked Adele is a more impressive vocalist than Janet Jackson, but this reductive thinking would have us believe that somehow "race" automatically correlates with singing ability. It doesn't.
Mariah being called a "white girl trying to sing black" by music critics became such an issue that she had a press conference/sit down with many of them early on to tell them to cut it out. The reality is that Mariah never denied being mixed race, and I don't agree with the argument that Tommy tried to hide that aspect of her. Critics like Nelson George were ones who created this issue because their color struck, racialist thinking disallowed the idea that someone who looked like Mariah could sing and write so brilliantly.
Sorry for getting on my soapbox, but it makes me angry that Mariah has felt pressured into pandering to this nonsense. Maybe we should stop trying to label music with such simplistic "racial" categories and just enjoy the music?
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 15:21)
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110,159 |
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,159)
by Terna from Nigeria
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You get it, and I'm glad you addressed it from this angle, I just didn't want to get into it. Part of the main problem "OG's" have is Mariah's leaning towards black music and succeeding at it too - R&B/Hiphop specifically. That's why they will always have a problem with this "New Mariah", so to speak, because that Tommy version was molded to cater to a white audience. Let's call it as it is. However, that's not the real her, never really was to begin with - check "Vision of Love", that's a singer who's main and only influence is black music, gospel, R&B and hip-hop (check the debut album, isn't she rapping on "Prisoner"). What's mind boggling about these OG fans is that new Mariah (true Mariah) has now been out so to speak, much longer (all caps) than hairbangs Mariah (Music Box and Daydream) and she has pretty much remained the same since, yet they're still hooked on the curated Tommy's vision of her and think that somehow, someday she's gonna go back to pop and that image. Smh.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 05:12)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,190)
by Dove from United States
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I agree with your entire post. Thank you for putting into words exactly how I think about it, better than I ever could.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 14:38)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,186)
by Jamie from UK
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We all like different styles of music, whether it be pop, hip hop, RnB, Soul. Mariah has covered those genres throughout her career even 1990-1995. She worked with C&C Music Factory to give her a street vibe, I loved it and the general audience loved it. The Butterfly album is a masterpiece I agree but I think the reason it didn't sell as much was purely the fact that she deviated far too quickly from what worked for her and her audience. She lost a big chunk of her core base. It didn't sell as much not because of its genre, it was purely down to what the public liked about Mariah and her style at the this time. As I said previously, I love urban Mariah otherwise I wouldn't continue to be a fan, I loved her and grew with her change in direction. Those that chose not to move with her was for their own personal music tastes and they're entitled to that. All I'm trying to get across is whilst we core fans might have stayed with her, the reason for her decline in sales is just down to the fact that more people preferred those early mixed genre days, and the sales spike for themselves. My love for Mariah and what I see as a current cognitive decline isn't me hating on her, I'm just coming from a concerned place. I appreciate your input and your views and I hope you have a nice day. 
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 13:34)
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,189)
by Bobby A from United States
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It wasn't just Tommy making his star singer sing more pop songs. Clive did it to Whitney as well. Whitney actually said to Clive that she wanted her 3rd album to be an R&B album. She heard the rumblings from the African-American community that she was catering too much to the pop audience and that bothered Whitney a lot. So, that is the reason why I'm Your Baby Tonight was a R&B album and subsequent albums after too. In both Clive's and Tommy's mind back then, if Whitney and Mariah sang pop songs both would reach a broader audience and maximize their album and single sales. It doesn't happen like that in today's music industry because great singers like Whitney and Mariah are non-existent today. You can sing anything, sing badly and still get a recording contract today.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 14:12)
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110,159 |
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The evolution of Mariah Carey (110,159)
by Terna from Nigeria
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You get it, and I'm glad you addressed it from this angle, I just didn't want to get into it. Part of the main problem "OG's" have is Mariah's leaning towards black music and succeeding at it too - R&B/Hiphop specifically. That's why they will always have a problem with this "New Mariah", so to speak, because that Tommy version was molded to cater to a white audience. Let's call it as it is. However, that's not the real her, never really was to begin with - check "Vision of Love", that's a singer who's main and only influence is black music, gospel, R&B and hip-hop (check the debut album, isn't she rapping on "Prisoner"). What's mind boggling about these OG fans is that new Mariah (true Mariah) has now been out so to speak, much longer (all caps) than hairbangs Mariah (Music Box and Daydream) and she has pretty much remained the same since, yet they're still hooked on the curated Tommy's vision of her and think that somehow, someday she's gonna go back to pop and that image. Smh.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 05:12)
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Sugar Sweet lyrics: "Cause I will absolutely get the ring"? (110,188)
by Shezz from Pk
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That's exactly what I thought as well. "I will absolutely get the ring" is another way of saying "I know that you'll be back boy." He'll call her and want to see her again. I don't think she means "I know he's going to marry me eventually." How ridiculous would that be. We need her to clear that up for us.
I love the Harper's Bazaar cover and shoot.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 14:08)
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110,146 |
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Sugar Sweet lyrics: "Cause I will absolutely get the ring"? (110,146)
by Mirage_Nunez from America
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Oh I thought she meant "the ring" as in "phone call", ie she's not worried because she knows he'll be back, not going anywhere, will reach back out to her. Perhaps it's a double entendre. 
The song is very catchy. I've listened to it several times back to back, so this could be the one. It really gives me the "Mariah is back" feel... like a very enjoyable album is on the way.
(Tuesday 29 July 2025; 00:56)
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